Governments Around The World Should Regulate Facebook

Fact Based Journalism is not Enough

We, at Katadata, believe that everything has to be based on data. Our company believe "kalau bicara pakai data" which in English words would be "speak with data". What do you think about it?

It is so inspiring about what you are doing. We have to stick to facts and evidence-based reporting, as you say, using the data to tell the story. It is really important, but it is not enough in the world right now. I have seen it all the way through reporting my story that facts are not enough anymore.

There is decreasing accountability because politicians do not need it. It used to be that you can publish a story and they say "look at this terrible thing the government has done" and you would have some accountability. Ministers would be embarrassed, and they might even be resigned. Whereas now in the new landscape of social media, there is increasingly no shame. You see Donald Trump doing this, and he just like "so what."

We also know that fact-based journalism has real difficulty competing with non-fact-based journalism, opinion, and partisan content because they look the same on the internet. It is a huge problem for journalists and citizens everywhere. One of the things that have to be addressed is that our model for paying for journalism was very disrupted by the internet. Thinking about new ways of paying for journalism and quality content is a really important part of it. Thank you for the work that Katadata does. It is very encouraging.

Carole Cadwalladr and Bambang Harymurti at Katadata's Indonesia Data and Economic Conference (IDE) 2020 (Adi Maulana Ibrahim|Katadata)

You said in your TED talk and The Great Hack that the liberal democracy is broken. Do you think the democratic country still can have a free and fair election ever again?

No, I mean right now it is very difficult and I don’t think important. It’s just, you know that this just.. we now know that pretty much all elections all across the world, they are happening online. Facebook is the medium by which all of our election going forward and it’s not a level playing field because you can’t, you have one side which say something factual and correct and wont lie, and then you have another politician who will just lie and spread hate contents and we know the lies do better.

And so this is where we need Facebook to step up and to take responsibility to feel shamed about what it is actually doing in the world and to take action. And it’s also very much up on the governments across the world to regulate Facebook. This is very important. And that only gonna happen if you and me and our friends and our family, we care about this issue. So actually talking and writing and reporting on this and understanding that this is one of the biggest existential crisis that we face in the world right now is really important step in trying to remedy a very very dangerous situation.

Our President, Jokowi, just signed data protection regulation bill. The bill imposes sanction for violating personal data. Those who unlawfully disclose or use personal data that are not their possessions will be subject to a seven-year prison sentence or a maximum fine of Rp 70 billion (US$ 5 million). What do you think about that? Is it enough to make company, like Facebook, to stop misuse user data for their own interest?

I mean it's really interesting that Indonesia introducing this law on personal data. That's far ahead than America which hasn't had law about data at all.

However, it slightly scares me that this could be used against people for misused personal data the idea of prison sentence. That is very punitif and this could be use against people who did good or journalist, NGO's and I hope it's a good piece of legislation. And it's not being use for authoritarian move for example against political opponent.

The investigation on Cambridge Analytica also made possible by the whistleblowers: Christopher Wylie and Brittany Kaiser. Do you hope that there will be more people like them to speak up about what the tech companies been doing for years?

I hope so. I particularly hope for the people who work for the big tech companies who work for Facebook, Google, Amazon, and all of the other silicon valley companies. I hope that we are going to have more of them coming forward and being prepared to speak up because these companies are so powerful and they are so opaque and closed.

We depend upon people on the inside, people having a conscience, and being prepared to come and talk to journalists. If there is anybody out there who is troubled by some of the things they see, I encourage them to come forward. It is really difficult being a whistleblower, but it is an incredibly important function and role for society.

Carole Cadwalladr (Adi Maulana Ibrahim|Katadata)

The Observer revealed Cambridge Analytica had misappropriated 87 million Facebook profiles around the world. If you can categorize Facebook users, who is the most fragile user that their data can be easily misused?

I’m not sure. I think research on this varies. I think there has been some research that say all the users are now vulnerable to seeing fake news and not realizing that it is fake. But then, you will sorry things about because young people online so much and may be the hadn’t have traditional media literacy, they sometimes are more vulnerable.

But I think we all are vulnerable because it’s very hard online to know where anything is coming from, and to know whether you are seeing good, truthful evidence-based materials or not. And we are vulnerable to being targeted in different ways, and with things which are based on our personal data that might be really individual to us. So I think we all are vulnerable. It’s a really good question and I think we might not even realize all the time. That’s the thing.

Aside from what you do as a journalist, you are also a writer. Do you have any books coming in the near future?

I really want to. I've been very focus on journalism and particularly what happen in Britain. And if i got time, i really want to sit down and get it done in a long form story. So i hope sometime this year I will manage that.